[brlug-newbies] Religion, Politics and Computer Operating Systems: Was: Re: [CCCC-General] Bad Vista.

EdsLinuxBox edslinuxbox at cox.net
Mon Apr 9 12:30:18 CDT 2007


Ladies and gentlemen of the Clickers General Discussion List and the 
Management and Board of Directors of the Cajun Clickers Computer Club, on 
behalf of the Linux Special Interest Group and Joe Zachary and I, allow me to 
apologize for Will Hill's comments below and for many of his past postings to 
this list. Please know that his position does not reflect that of the Linux 
SIG, nor of Joe or I. Will is very passionate with regard to Linux and Free 
and Open Source Software (FOSS) and sometimes his passion overrides his good 
judgment. This is another example of that occurance. After seeing his posting 
from yesterday evening and the responses from Roger and Carolyn, I sent Will 
the following e-mail. I have yet to receive a reply from him and hope that 
that is because he has yet to see my e-mail. Here is what I sent to him in 
total: 

"Will, 

I have been expecting to see this kind of e-mail for quite some time now, but 
was hoping that maybe it would never come or that the negative postings would 
cease, but alas, it has and unfortunately, I have to agree with both Roger 
and Carolyn and I am sure that there are many others that are subscribed to 
the Clicker's General list that feel exactly the same way. I personally hate 
politics and am by no means a fan of Microsoft, but if people are happy with 
using Windows and the software that Microsoft supports, who am I to bash them 
for their decision. This posting about Vista, and others that you have made 
in the past, is very much like an evangelical Christian standing out in front 
of a Catholic Church on Saturday evening or Sunday morning telling all of 
parishners that they are going to hell because they don't believe the way 
that the evangelical does. It never fosters good will and I doubt that any 
are ever converted using that tactic, just as few of the Clicker's members 
will be converted using yours. 

Is it appropriate to make such posts to the Clicker's general list? No, in my 
opinion it is not. No more so than posting a pro Vista message would be to 
the LInux SIG list or for that matter to the BRLUG lists. Is it appropriate 
to post a pro FOSS message in response to a message like "I want to watch a 
PowerPoint presentation but don't own a copy of MS Office." Sure that is 
appropriate and may even eventually move that person from Windows to Linux. 

I have invested a HUGH amount of time and a not so insignificant amount of my 
own money in trying to make this Linux SIG a success, as have a number of 
other people. I have volunteered to be on the radio show and have been a 
regular at the monthly instructors meetings. I have also gone to great 
lengths to build bridges between us and the club management and these efforts 
are starting to pay substantial dividends, but then we have an anti-Microsoft 
posting that undermines all of those efforts and makes the dollars spent seem 
to be in vein. 

I have no ax to grind or agenda other than to help those who are a wanting 
help to use and enjoy Linux the way that I do. I am not looking to save the 
computing world, I know that I won't make any money doing this, and genuinely 
don't care who gets the credit for whatever success the SIG may enjoy in the 
future, but I don't want the SIG to be any more of an uphill battle for me 
than it already is. I really don't need to do this. I have a good job. I 
already know how to do everything that I want to do with Linux. I just bought 
a new bike that I would love to be riding more but I have commitments with 
the SIG that take first priority. In fact, I will be missing an all day bike 
event this coming Saturday that I would love to attend and show off the new 
bike but because I have committed to do the Linux Day Open House, I won't be 
able to go. I hope that this commitment has not been made in vein. 

I ask that you post a public apology for the comments that you made and that 
you refreign from making any more in the future to the General List. If you 
wish to make such comments, then I ask that you limit them to the Linux SIG 
list and to the BRLUG political list. Having said that, I would prefer that 
all negative postings be eliminated from the Linux SIG list. If it is not 
positive, it has no place there, but then I am also not a list moderator. 

I am coping both Joe and Roger on this e-mail. You are free to include any or 
all of this e-mail in your apology to the General List membership as you may 
feel is appropriate. 

I look forward to seeing your very soon reply. 

Ed Richards"

Please don't allow Will's comments to tarnish what has been accomplished by 
the Linux Desktop SIG to date and, if you were planning on attending the Open 
House this coming Saturday, please do so.  If you wern't planning on 
attending, the let me extend that invitation to you. We will be replaying the 
slide presentation entitled "Linux: The Alternate Desktop" at 9AM, 11AM and 1 
PM in Lecture Room 1. Following the slide presentation, you will have the 
opportunity to experience Linux first hand in the Computer Lab. There will be 
coaches available to answer questions and assist you in any way that you may 
need. I promise that there will be NO Microsoft bashing, at least not from 
me. 

Thanks for reading this rather lengthy post and for allowing me to offer this 
apology. 

Sincerely, 

Ed Richards
CCCC Linux Desktop Special Interest Group

On 04/08/2007 08:00 pm, Roger Carlyle wrote:
> Wow!  Microsoft hating never stops.  I'm personally offended at the amount
> of negative Microsoft email traffic on our CCCC list has.
> I purposely avoid any negative Linux messages, and there is plenty to
> spread around if a person wanted to, but it would serve no useful purpose
> for our club.
> If you like a particular product, that's fine.  Shout it to the rooftops.
> But stop the blasting of one OS product in an effort to make another OS
> product look good.  That's called negative salesmanship --- where you spend
> an extraordinary amount of time running down a competitors product to make
> yours look good.  Most of the time it backfires.
> Our club is made up of 98%+ Microsoft Windows users.  Every time an email
> is sent out blasting Microsoft and promoting Linux, you are insulting those
> 98% CCCC members who are happy with their Microsoft product. Linux is fine
> if that is what you want to use.  Our club has gone out of the way to
> provide support to the Linux group.  Insulting emails about Microsoft
> products is not the way continue to receive that support.  Don't forget
> that those 98% CCCC Windows users pay 98% of the bills for the CCCC
> building.  Just a fact that should not be forgotten.
>
> I don't want to start a Microsoft / Linux war. It would be a waste of time.
> So how about a little respect for the other side that are happy with the
> Microsoft OS they are using.
> We all have the internet and can access and read all the same good/bad
> vista/Linux stuff that is floating around.  We don't need it shoved in our
> faces.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces at lists.clickers.org
> [mailto:general-bounces at lists.clickers.org] On Behalf Of willhill
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 1:43 PM
> To: General Discussion List
> Subject: [CCCC-General] Bad Vista.
>
> The overwhelming answer to that question is no.  I've read estimates that
> Vista will run well on 6% of the world's existing desktop computers.  The
> chances of a upgrade working are low, even if you think your computer is up
> to spec.  Finally, if you get passed buggy drivers and other flaws, the
> interface is supposed to be foreign, inefficient, intrusive and
> restrictive.
>
> Security and privacy issues are just the same as they always were, despite
> many wild claims of improvement.  All of that will be there if you buy a
> new
>
> computer, but you have a better chance of the thing working in a year or
> so.
>
> The lawsuit has a lot of merit.  The software was not ready for those
> machines
> and may never be.  It was irresponsible of vendors and Microsoft to promise
> drivers from other companies like Nvidia that may never be written.  Also,
> their versioning and intentional crippling of software is deceptive.  A lot
> of people expecting a "wow" from their "express upgrade" are rightly going
> to
> feel let down.
>
> In the mean time, everyone is welcome to a free and easy software upgrade
> at
>
> the Linux Desktop SIG.  Free software desktops have come a long way in the
> six years Microsoft has taken to make Vista.  Ease of use, features and
> programs have been added without sacrificing performance, security or
> privacy.  Next weekend, on the 14th, the Desktop SIG will be having an Open
> House where you can see and try it out for yourself.
>
> Happy Easter, everyone!
>
>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
> Cajun Clickers Computer Club - http://www.clickers.org
> - Postings prior to March 24, 2006 are located at:
> http://lists.clickers.org/oldGeneral/ - Online Newsletter: 
> http://lists.clickers.org/newsletter
> - Online newsletter & mailing list logon info:
> http://www.clickers.org/newsMailing.aspx - Cajun Clickers Calendar: 
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